Discourse Communities and "A Loaf of Bread"
"Then," Green answered, "your example is academic. Here we are not talking about real life. One man lives by the code, one man does not. Who is there free enough to make a judegment?... "Much more than a few dollars are at stake. If this one buyer is to be condemned, then so are most people in the history of the world. An examination of history provides the only answer to your questino. This code will be here tomorrow, long after the ones who do not honor it are not." Harold Green (my emphasis)
"I have always believed in Justice with a capital J. I was raised up from a baby believin' that God ain't gonna let nobody go too far....Now when men start to capitlize, they gets greedy. They put a little j in joy and a littler one in justice. They raise up a big G in Greed and a big E in Evil.. Well, soon as they commence to put a little g in God, you can expect some kind of reaction." Nelson Reed
We can use these quotes as a jumping point into the different worlds of both Reed and Green. Class conversation really uncovered a lot of issues and themes in "A Loaf of Bread". Vita's comment regarding Green's rationalization about "business" opened up some interesting areas for thinking about "business" in our culture. As we talked about, there are many ways to read a piece of literature, but for our purposes, we are trying to see how the notion of discourse communities plays out in the short story. For homework, please post to the blog by quoting a passage in the story that you glossed and exploring, in detail, how this passage contributes to your understanding of the story and how it relates to discourse communities. How does this quote help you understand as aspect of shared knowledge? Does it suggest anything about shared purpose or shared ways? Please draw on class discussion if need be.
posted by cjpapasito at 2:03 PM
16 Comments:
"The onliest thing that matter in this world is money...one thing to live without money and quite another to live without faith." It's very tru,we all know that money is only material sourse for living,except material goods people need faith.Majority of people belive in different types of Gods,some of them belive in politics of presedent Bush,some belive in thier "bright" future.And it is not that important to belive,but its important to keep and suport this belive,otherwise your life just stop making sense to yourself,and bacome sort of tasteless.As we see on example of Mr Nelson.Its always very tragic when people disapointed in thier belives,and as a matter of fact,they become very angry with other poeple.
The specific nature of the shared knowleges that being build up in this sort of"religious" conversation of Mr Nelson (a decon in the Baptist church)and his community:that money is the thing to belive and porpose of that if we don't have money let'get it from somebody else, for example Mr Harold Green.And as way to that they creating a picket.The real faces of this people we can see at the end of the story.
"I think it was brown bread. Don't that cost more than white?"
The two men looked away from each other, but not at anything in the store.
"In my store, yes," Harold Green said. He rang the register with the most casual movement of his finger. The register read fifty-five cents.
Nelson Reed held out a dollar.
"And two cents tax," the grocer said.
The man held out the dollar.
I think the white and brown bread represent people.It seems that Mr Reed finally stood in Mr Green's shoes!It sounds like a metaphore to me. Mr Reed didn't argue about the price,because Mr Green did the right thing.They entered each other's discourse communities!Now Mr Grean has nothing -just like Mr Reed!Mr Grean showed that he is "not an evil man" and that money is not everything in this world. You can also feel the switch of percepting things between the two characters.There is shared knowledge,because there is connection between previous conversation and this one.
"'What does it matter?' he said in a tone of voice intended for himself alone. 'In this area I will admit I make a profit, but it is not so much as you think. But I do not make a profit here because the people are black. I make a profit because a profit is here to be made.'" Here, Green is trying to explain to Reed why he has higher prices in this one store.
"Nelson Reed was trembling. 'I ain't you,' he said in a deep baritone. 'I ain't the supermarket neither. All I is is a poor man that works too hard to see his pay slip through his fingers like rainwater.'" Here, Reed is explaining that through his perspective Green is cheating him.
Both of these people are part of very different "discourse communities", and they are both trying to communicate with each other while remaining in their separate communities. The problem arises when they can not understand the others point of view. They must both understand their collective problems before either of them can attempt to fix them.
"The onliest thing that matters in this world is money. And when was the last time you seen a picture of Jesus on a dollar bill?"
In todays society we, for the most part believe in a capitalistic society, one that is fed by materialistic posessions. We view society as one which, if we have a lot of something, espically money, than we are all set and we're better than others. Religion plays a key aspect in this story. Some may say that religion outshines everything else and that there is a right way and a wrong way to do everything. I feel that this is a key component to understanding discourse communities--what's important? Some may say money and some may say relgion, it's all up to the person,and their morals and values.
"Mrs. Tyrone Brown hung a curve of pepperoni around her neck and seemed to take on istant dignity, much like a person of noble birth in possession now of a long sought after gem." I would think she would feel undignified taking something for free, but instead she felt dignified, like she deserved it all along. I would not feel comfortable taking something from somebody so care-free, I would feel ashamed.
"Mr. Green," Nelson Reed said coldly. "My wife bought a loaf of bread in here this morning. She forgot to pay you. I, myself, have come here to pay you your money."
"Oh," the grocer said.
"I think it was brown bread. Don't that cost more than white?"
The two men looked away from each other, but not at anything in the store.
"In my store, yes," Harold Green said. He rang the register with the most casual movement of his finger. The register read fifty-five cents.
Nelson Reed held out a dollar.
"And two cents tax," the grocer said.
The man held out the dollar.
"After all," Harold Green said. "We are all, after all, Mr. Reed, in debt to the government."
He rang the register again. It read fifty-seven cents.
Nelson Reed held out a dollar.
The end of the story really had me thinking about why Reed went back to pay for the bread. What was his motivation? What was he trying to say to Green? In conversation with others I discovered a few theories, maybe Reed was too prideful to accept something for free, maybe it was his way of saying I understand now, or best in my opinion - maybe he was making the statement that he didn't want free, he wanted fair.
The onliest thing that matters in this world is money. And when was the last time you seen a picture of Jesus on a dollar bill?"
I found this quote very interesting. Its very true though, this statement. Religion and faith in my mind has taken a back seat to money. Money is what makes the world goes round, or in most peoples minds. They say money can't but happiness, but im sure many would diagree. My life would be a lot easier with more of it. Would you rather go to church on sunday on work overtime and make extra cash? What does this mean to you and the world today? Some would say, would you rather be happy in this life or the next? Have lots of money now and live in wealth, or follow your faith and have a good "afterlife". There are so many questions this quote raises. Money was a major factor to Green and his community, I think thats why this question was raised.
I did not make the world," Green began, recognizing at once the seriousness in her stare. "My father came to this country with nothing but his shirt. He was exploited for as long as he couldn't help himself. He did not protest or picket. He put himself in a position to play by the rules he had learned." He waited for his wife to answer, and when she did not, he tried again. "I did not make this world," he repeated. "I only make my way in it. Such people as these, they do not know enough to not be exploited. If not me, there would be a Greek, a Chinaman, maybe an Arab or a smart one of their own kind. Believe me, I deal with them. There is something in their style that lacks the patience to run a concern such as mine. If I closed down, take my word on it, someone else would do what has to be done." --It seems to me that he was just trying to scam people out of their money, because he didn't think that they would find out. Yea people are gonna rip other people off, it happens, but he's trying to justify it. He should just admit he got caught and face the consequences, not weasel out and make excuses. It seems he feels like he's justified. Hey, if they don't figure it out and it's gonna happen anyway, why not join in and make some cash, ya heard!
There is one point in "loaf of bread" that really comes to my attention. Both Nelson Reed and Harold Green seem to be very different types of people from very different backgrounds. I myself find them to be similiar. "He ask me to put myself in his place," Reed told his wife. Can you imaging that kind of gumption? I never cheated nobody in my life. All my life I have lived on Bible principles. I am a deacon in the church. I have work all my life I have lived on bible principles. I am a deacon in the church. I have work all my life for other folks and I don't even own a house i live in." Both of the are very proud of where they come from but at the same time have a lot of conflict. "This here's a low down, ass kicking world." They both know that the world is a tough place and have to fight to keep there identity and values in it.
".. "No matter what they say to you, no matter what they take, you will remain silent." She stared deeply into him for what she knew was there. "If you refuse, you have seen the last of your children and myself.".."
In this passage Harold Greens' wife, Ruth, is telling Harold to allow for one day to give away groceries for free. She said that because he had raised the prices of items which he charged for less in different stores. The black community was his highest demanding store. Harold felt it was a slick business decision to charge more in his busiest store to make the highest profit he could. Hif wife was testing his morality by telling him to let the customers have a free shopping experience. The matter is money versus love; his wife and family representing love vs. making money. She possibly realized how everything in the end would work out for the better. It is as if she premeditated the outcome of the story or something, and that is pretty interesting to take an outside look on. The discourse community it represents is family, and the love holding it all together. The shared knowledge is definately the quality of caring. The shared ways they represent is that the wife is very strict and prompt with her demands. Harold seems to be very attentive on taking his wife's statements into consideration. The shared ways is not only trying to get the local strikers off of her husbands' back but to determine what he really cares more about, love or money. That is the way I viewed the situation.
. "Because you are at heart a moral man." His wife knew he was not as bad as he portrayed himself to be. She new that if he was approached in a different manner he might not have reacted the way he did. I also believed he new that, but instead of giving in openly he had to do it in a way he felt was appropriate to him. I believe the presence of Reed's wife showed that. She did not come at him with words, her silence was enough for him. Green seeems like he doesn't like to be confronted, and that is what Reed did so he just reacted to him in a negative way.
"And what is the name of my children?" "Green." The grocer smiled. "There is your answer," he told his wife. "Green is the only color I am interested in."
Here Green is letting his wife know that he only cares about making money. All the picketing wasn't going to make him lower his prices. People can say or do whatever and he was still going to charge a higher price at that store in order to make up for the loss and extra expenses.
Had to post it twice, because I forgot to put my name on the first blog.
"And what is the name of my children?" "Green." The grocer smiled. "There is your answer," he told his wife. "Green is the only color I am interested in."
Here Green is letting his wife know that he only cares about making money. All the picketing wasn't going to make him lower his prices. People can say or do whatever and he was still going to charge a higher price at that store in order to make up for the loss and extra expenses.
"Where do they get so much power?" Green said to his wife. "Two days ago, nobody would have cared. Now, everywhere, even in my home, I am condemned as a rascal. And what do I own? An airline? A multinational? Half of South America? No! I own three stores, one of which happens to be in a certain neighborhood inhabited by people who cost me money to run it." He sighed and sat upright on the sofa, his chubby legs spread wide. "A cab driver has a meter that clicks as he goes along. I pay extra for insurance, iron bars, pilfering by customers and employees. Nothing clicks. But when I add a little overhead to my prices, suddenly everything clicks. But for someone else. When was there last such a world?"
"He ask me to put myself in his place," Reed told his wife. "Can you imagine that kind of gumption? I never cheated nobody in my life. All my life I have lived on Bible principles. I am a deacon in the church. I have work all my life for other folks and I don't even own the house I live in."
"all day long I have not made a single cent of profit. The entire day was a loss. This store, like the others, is bleeding me." He waved his arms about the room in a magnificent gesture of uncaring loss. "Now do you understand?" he said. "Now will you put yourself in my shoes? I have nothing here. Come, now, Mr. Reed, would it not be so bad a thing to walk in my shoes?"
...It is not easy running a business. There is a lot of compitition out there and you have to do what you have to do to make a living, especially when you have a family to tend to. If I go into a store and I find the prices too high I don't go to that store. If it is the only store in my area, then yes, I will shop there, and complain everytime I purchase something. There are so many stores with the same name. It depends on the area. If you set up a store in a predominately wealthy area, you are more likely to charge less than you would if you were in a predominately poor area.
I personally see nothing wrong with what Green is doing.
Reed said, "we are human, same as you" to which Green replied "Before God!". Here is one
example of the value system we live in today. Noble ideas of how things should be is not the way things are in life. Within this framework of thought, Green could have very well answered "Money talks, bs walks" and the ultimate message would have been the same.
"Where do they get so much power?" Green said to his wife. "Two days ago, nobody would have cared. Now, everywhere, even in my home, I am condemned as a rascal. And what do I own? An airline? A multinational? Half of South America? No! I own three stores, one of which happens to be in a certain neighborhood inhabited by people who cost me money to run it." He sighed and sat upright on the sofa, his chubby legs spread wide. "A cab driver has a meter that clicks as he goes along. I pay extra for insurance, iron bars, pilfering by customers and employees. Nothing clicks. But when I add a little overhead to my prices, suddenly everything clicks. But for someone else. When was there last such a world?"
This shows Green’s point of view and makes you understand his motivation behind charging more in the black neighborhood. It rather simplifies the story; there are no ideological or racist explanations behind his decision to have higher prices. It simply costs more to run the store in that particular neighborhood. It exposes the shortcoming of having different “discourse communities”: since Reed and Green belong to different ones they can’t communicate effectively and can’t put themselves ‘in each other’s shoes’. This also reveals a similar aspect of shared knowledge; the fact that people outside of the particular discourse community don’t have access to this ‘shared knowledge’ hinders communication between these communities and shows that the shared knowledge is deficient in that regard. The same can be said about shared ways or purpose. They are beneficiary within the community but become an obstacle in communication and understanding among communities.
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